Voting Night?

My starting opinion in regards to fweaks comment about major game #15:

fweaks wrote:

ScreamingHawk wrote:

fweaks wrote:

also mikey, there are times when night is good for townies. not often, but sometimes. the whole first day thing is generally a good example.

I completely disagree.
If you can't make a lynch on the first day then voting night is fine because it's not really a game day (and as such should be excluded).
Otherwise information about who wants who lynched can be gained from even this first day. So voting night is bad.

what about in my target game? go have a look at the signup thread for Major Mafia #15, which is where most of the public game information for that one is.

Your target game seems a prime example of what I am saying. (Except for if mafia has less / no night kill. In which case the whole night concept is kinda changed and I'll conceed.)

But the simple fact is town can only communicate during the day. Communication is good for town. If there is any reason someone wants to hide or be deceptive about their opinion it is bad for town. Voting night is an easy way to hide opinion.

The only possible reason one could make about voting night is that no more information could possibly be gained during the day. But this is never the case. Adding random votes and pressure will show who is willing to vote who and that is extra information. Even if you went full circle to see who would vote and defend who, by that time that circle has been made opinions will likely have changed, so you can do another round.

the target game is a prime example of what i'm saying, because in it i explicitly made it so that mafia was nerfed, it was the whole point of the game, that night was good for townies.

voting night can be good for the game if it avoids stagnation and keeps townies active in the game. i.e. if the whole town agrees nothing will come of day, which often happens, often people stop paying attention.

i do agree with you that in a perfect world, night is generally bad for townies. but in the real world, people can be naieve, random, lazy, bored, misled, etc. and sometimes you just gotta play the team you're dealt. which is why you shouldn't automatically target people who vote night.

fweaks wrote:

voting night can be good for the game if it avoids stagnation and keeps townies active in the game. i.e. if the whole town agrees nothing will come of day, which often happens, often people stop paying attention.

I've already said why there should never be stagnation. If there is then it is people not trying to communicate or get info, which again is bad for town and so should be judged as such.

fweaks wrote:

i do agree with you that in a perfect world, night is generally bad for townies. but in the real world, people can be naieve, random, lazy, bored, misled, etc. and sometimes you just gotta play the team you're dealt. which is why you shouldn't automatically target people who vote night.

So long as mafia has a night kill, going to night is bad. If your example is one that breaks the traditional rules I'm not considering it evidence against my claim.

If days didn't end without a lynch then mafia would be lynched by some greater than zero probablity. This is better than the night probability of zero. If there is enough communication I'd put this mafia lynch prob well above 50%.

To be fair I think we are on the same page that voting night is bad but the difference is you are allowing people to play ooruo, where I am saying if you play against town then you are bad for town and should be treated as such.

yeah, mostly.

there is one more thing you do need to take into account though. that is relative lynch probabilities, and future team ratios. I suppose this doesn't exactly mean don't vote night, but it is a reason why you would allow it to get to night without a lynch.

Yeah I agree with that. You should never random lynch. Not even final day. (It shouldn't be random)

This game with/against you is going to be good.

we shall see >.>