Mafia #24 Magnet Mafia - Night 2

Guys....GUYS...If you lynch me, then there are definitely still 2 mafia out there, both with killing roles! If you REALLY think that lynching me would get more info, then fine. We can afford to make a wrong lynch at this stage, UNLESS the 2 mafia get kills next night. Then it'd be 1v1v2. Not very good odds...If we get rid of scum now, then the worst that could happen is 1 kill goes through, making it 1v4. It'd be MUCH easier to weed out who the last person is at that stage. Fweaks has been the most dodgy, since he's been all over the place, so I really do believe that he is scum. Not much more than my strong belief, but that's all I can really offer...

Skrillaka wrote:

Happy was the original target for the kill, so that's pretty good evidence for not being mafia in my view

Not necessarily, it can be entirely possible that she chose not to kill in order to glide under the radar and put focus on the other mafia team.

It is also entirely possible that the other killing role was hidden beneath wounds, as what was said before. So now that they're all better now, they can come out of hiding o.o....

orange wrote:

Right, so recap:
Orange: Happy to Oless
Slushee: Fweaks to Happy
Fweaks: Slush to Happy
Happy: ??? to fweaks

Now at this point, fweaks and happy's claims line up - where happys redirection is the one in the corner that does nothing.

Hahaha this is what I get for not paying close-enough attention to the conversation.. becoming the moron in the corner that does nothing
I'm assuming there's no benefit to saying who I directed from now, but if anyone would like it just say so

orange wrote:

Fweaks and mattgoku in a team? Fweaks was first to vote off matt

The way I saw it was, the objective info from the first night's diagram was far too strong and they both realised it. So in their hypothetical mafia document they would've agreed matt couldn't be saved anymore.
Which is more CONFIRMATION BIAS but I really have no other explanation why fweaks would claim an extremely bunk role which speaking of which is the one thing keeping me from placing any vote right now.. jonno, why would you claim bunk role? щ(ಠ益ಠщ)
It could've ended extremely badly if neither kill had been aimed at you, because quite frankly, if I was on mafia I wouldn't go "well, he said he's lightning rod, guess there's no choice then". But I was convinced there would only be two redirects last night phase so I can't believe it's mafia keikaku either :/

But the question that's bugging me. If chanisha was shot last night, and it wove its way to daniel... then who shot chanisha?
I'm guessing everyone's already ahead of the game here because I keep typing out things and they've already been said == Let's say chanisha is mafia and chose to shoot herself, and her mafia redirector sends it me for framing purposes. That would put jonno and her on the same team, which is too much of a long con for me to believe <w<
And if it's skrillaka or hiroshi/geoff who were her redirectors... well, they were stuffed, so wantonly aiming at herself is russian roulette 3__3 So does that make tundra a new killer?
I can believe it from the night story's "It's time we sent someone in to deal with this" (third-party, likely, or townie "keep the peace" assassin if we're lucky); I don't know what the implications of this round are if it's the truth <w< I just don't know what to think.

Whatthefuckery indeed, michael. T__T

No one shot slush. The shot originated from her aimed at you. Then redirected once to oless. My redirect had no effect.

Hahaha okay reading comprehension.. thanks bro.... seriously though, have the diagrams indicated who initiated the shot this whole time? or did I just forget in general confusion =__=
Is there nobody else left who will lay the hammer.. ;__; part of me is still doubting "what if I'm wrong, what if we're wrong, what if our conclusion is based on lies", and chanisha is right in that a hypothetical wrong move has much worse consequences than sitting on it XD I think I just haven't been paying attention this day phase and now all the information is flooding me at once

Yes, the red arrows have started at the source of the kill and ended at the victim - see the first diagram, the arrow on the left has no redirect associated with it, and it turned out to be oless killing shu.

Haha thanks man.. I definitely realised that at the time..... I'm gonna just attribute all this to spontaneous loss of brain cells T__T

Ahhh turns out I can't be online tomorrow before deadline and I don't know that any of the remaining players will come on to cement lynch in time :< so I guess I should be decent and move the game forward haha
l-l-l-lynch slushee t'was a good game with you!! now we just have to hope we weren't misled with regards to you sighh ><

Thee_Slushee has been lynched!!!!!

Votes
Thee_Slushee - LYNCHED - 4 votes from {fweaks, Skrillaka, orange, Happy}
fweaks - 2 votes to lynch - 2 votes from {Thee_Slushee, Just Tundra}

Fluff Spoiler:

Players
fweaks [alive]
Skrillaka [alive]
Hiroshi [alive]
Thee_Slushee [dead]
Shu [dead]
oless [dead]
Happy [alive]
mattgoku [dead]
orange [alive]
Just Tundra [alive]

It's night now so close your eyes. DO IT! Ok, you can stop now. I said you can stop! This is online fool.
Please get your night actions to me by Thursday 3pm.


Also, why did no one tell me that I work with Geoff?  
I was a bit surprised to see someone from my work on our humble little forum.

We offer the best perks in the business too!

• 5 weeks of paid vacation and 2 weeks of sick leave
  
• Comprehensive health insurance that covers you and your family (We know a guy)
  
• Comprehensive life insurance policy for you (it's important to us that your family is taken care of)
  
• Comprehensive dental plan (We know a guy)
  
• Free drycleaning (We know how hard it is to get blood out)
  
• Yearly grants for personal development (weapons upgrades, assassination classes, threatening lessons etc). We want you at your best!
  
• Free frozen yogurt (Uncle Stewie owns the place)
  
• And many, many more!
  

For a limited time only, we are offering first choice in the different departments we have:

1. PR (dealing with cops, politicians, banks, etc)
   
2. PR (carrying out hits, covering up hits)
   
3. Managing funds (laundering)
   
4. Suit department
   

*Once you join the mafia, then your life belongs to the mafia. You will not at any time attempt to quit, skip town, leave the country. We will find you and end you....

Bahahaha.... No way...

It's Over!

All the threats to town have been eliminated, TOWNIES WIN!

Players
fweaks [Redirector]
Skrillaka [Redirector]
Hiroshi [Mafia 1 - DEAD]
Thee_Slushee [Mafia 2 - DEAD]
Shu [Redirector - DEAD]
oless [Mafia 2 - DEAD]
Happy [Redirector]
mattgoku [Mafia 1 - DEAD]
orange [Redirector]
Just Tundra [Role Blocker]

Hiroshi has been found dead! Weapon in hand, it was clear he was a killer.

Mod notes

Here are the mafia communication docs and my modding doc for your reading pleasure
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jYf32ZYxh_1y4Px0qir75zBuC5zJ2HCqj3pMF7Ly_ug/edit?usp=sharing
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1xKO3oOtQh1-Si0ILJdiLeryCrXk9tUN6SrMpSVxcfMo/edit?usp=sharing
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1pAT-RlEF4_neO0KDWhbmYb3_f4MgThcni95-oK5QESE/edit?usp=sharing


OK... So this game didn't end up running anything like I had expected.
I actually ran a bunch of randomised examples to test out how badly things could go.
Given how diverse the randomised results were I figured everything would be OK... Turns out no.

Here are the night actions:

Spoiler:

Why so many redirectors? Why the night story in a diagram? Wouldn't the mafia be obvious?
The diagram is COOL though!!!
The thing I found in Happy's game was that the town didn't get enough information. Especially with redirection, it's important to know who your real target ends up being (cop/doc mostly).
I figured that with 4 mafia and 5 townies, it would be pretty hard to figure out the fake claims from the real claims.
Unfortunately, most of the mafia saw this as too risky and so didn't want to claim anything.
Which meant that there was usually 1 really obvious fake.
Why not other roles though?
"Balance" and "Fairness" and "Simple is beautiful"
Redirector is my favourite role. So I wanted everyone to get a chance to use it Except mafia, they just kill people.


Why did people heal from their woundeds?
I had prepared a bunch of different things that could happen in the split redirection scenario..

1. They all die
This would have made the game really fast. Considering 4 people would have died night 1, I decided against this.

2. Some priority queue decides who the redirect goes to, instead of hitting everyone
I plain just didn't like this idea. I don't like the idea of there being RNG events. IMO, I good game is deterministic. Having unknown elements is fine, but have RANDOM elements is not. Imagine playing chess but having to flip a coin to see if you get a turn or not... It makes the game less skill.

3. Wounded
They have to lose something, so I made it the night actions. Considered losing your vote, but the voting and conversation is really the key in mafia so I didn't want to remove that.
Why did they get healed though?
Because 2 of the 3 wounded people were mafia, and one mafia died that night which meant that there was a mafia team with no night action. That's not cool.


Who is the new guy? Why? Isn't that a random element?
I really needed to do something to save mafia, who were dying left and right. It is kind of random, but it was up to my decision, which I'm saying makes it deterministic
Originally I was going to add him as a day doctor, who could heal one person of their wounds. But once I realised how badly mafia was suffering, I knew that the healing had to be instant.
So I made him a role blocker. Why? Because it was the redirectors that were really screwing mafia. They couldn't get any night kills on who they wanted to kill.
Unfortunately it was too late in the game for him to have enough of an impact. (Imagine if even a townies redirection wasn't on the diagram but they didn't know).
Obviously it didn't do enough to save it. I needed to go further. See the next question for more info.

Oh, the new guy is my brother. Say Hi!


What would you have done differently?
Mafia need some way to get around the redirections.
I should have made fweaks actually be a Lightning rod
Nah, I should have included a role where someone can "place" lightning rod on someone at night.
The effect here being that if the target gets hit by an attack, it can't be redirected away from them.
If it was a mafia role, I'd place a limit like, you can't target the person you are shooting to make it interesting, but still think it would have worked way better.

The new guy also could have been this role and mafia aligned (wins when a mafia team wins), but still unknown to mafia.
Unfortunately, I had only thought of this role when night 3 started and it would be a bit rude to force him to change.
I had originally told him he would be doc, and then changed already before he joined. Changing the role AND ALIGNMENT after a day would have been awful.


Other stuff I considered
Redirection actions that weren't "used" by mafia attacks, would stay in play.
This would have confused town more in the diagrams, and added more crazy for mafia to deal with.
After getting the night 2 actions, the left over actions from night 1 wouldn't have had an impact so I made a judgement call that mafia had enough crazy to deal with and decided not to do that.

Something that never had to be decided, was if a redirection would get "used up" if it was going to be activated twice.
This would have involved the priority queue I mentioned I didn't like earlier BUT it would have removed the change of a huge redirection circle that would kill(wound probably) multiple people.
The situation never came up so I didn't really make a decision on it.

I actually had a few more floating city images too, but I started posting from work and didn't have them on me.
There is some really good art out there.



That's it
Got any questions? Comments? Please post.

Also, Thee_Slushee. Is that an ad for the next game?

I totally just shot myself.
GG guys. I kinda knew I was losing that game, but I think I did pretty well considering that it only lasted 3 days. Totally aced my fake-claim on day 1 getting Shu's redirect spot on.

[EDIT]
Also what the heck was that, Fweaks??

LOL yes, you did VERY well, Hiroshi! I fully thought you were town XD Very ballsy!!!
Attacking second night was probably not a very good idea for me. And I had this master scheme 2nd day actually but didn't go with it! (refer to my brain dump in my doc XD)

But yeah, it was pretty stacked against mafia! Might've worked better if we all did false claim. The diagram took me off guard though! Just couldn't see a way to lie through it!!

And yes, we are still hiring

Thee_Slushee wrote:

Attacking second night was probably not a very good idea for me.

Still not as bad as me attacking in night 3.

Ha! Others may have been fooled, but I had a feeling it would be you! So I redirected towards you just to see what would happen.

Slushee, make a sign up thread. Unless Hiroshi has his game idea set up?

I'm happy to let Slushee go first

Hiroshi wrote:

Still not as bad as me attacking in night 3.

I dunno, I see that as you committing seppuku. I straight up killed my own partner! XD

Oh Lol!! I wasn't actually thinking of hosting a game! But now that you mention it, I may do one later...

But Hiroshi, if you have an idea, go for it

And here's the thread!
http://dbmafia.omgforum.net/t239-mafia-25-signup-thread

I promise it wont be as crazy as this one!

Wow. Yeah, it stacked up against you guys really quick.
I think with Jasmine's game, it was mostly confusing since it was new and everyone was like 'how does this kill/injury mechanic even happen? Wait, there is more than one redirector?? What is going onnnn???'.
So since half of us were already familiar and expecting that, the diagrams became too helpful.

However, I was leaning towards believing Chanisha and wanted to vote off Jonno for his lightning rod claim. >_> Glad I didn't get all indecisive.

Holy cow!! Good game guys!!! Chanisha, just how long did you spend on that final post.. it's incredible
Yeah I think Jonno would've gotten voted off one way or another :b but at the rate it was going I don't think town would've been hurt too badly, hahaa

Geoff you absolutely had some awful luck this final round, haha.. as did all the mafia, for sure! There's just something about this setup that seems to suplex balance into the ground. I would love to keep iterating on this gametype in the future until we manage to get it right - as long as people didn't get too bored Thanks Michael for running this, was super fun and I loved your additions!

Here's the thing: if I had simply not acted last night, Just Tundra was a roleblocker and he blocked fweaks => no kill action means fweaks was mafia and he was already highly suspicious so pretty easy lynch. But then he was town, so Just Tundra was obviously lying, so that's a pretty easy lynch too. Even then that leaves me, Happy, Orange and Skrillaka... 1 mafia with 3 redirectors is not going to be pretty lol.

That, Geoff, was winning

Hiroshi wrote:

Here's the thing: if I had simply not acted last night, Just Tundra was a roleblocker and he blocked fweaks => no kill action means fweaks was mafia and he was already highly suspicious so pretty easy lynch.

I was very careful not to call my role because of that risk. Haha

Wanna join the new game?